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Speed of the Sun

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Speed of the Sun Empty Speed of the Sun

Post by Perma Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:56 pm

Does anybody know where I can find info regarding the speed of the sun?
Thx in advance

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Speed of the Sun Empty Re: Speed of the Sun

Post by RileySlowWave Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:43 pm

hey Perma,

we can take the circumference of the equator & divide by 24; then again by 60

Equator = 24,902 miles [according to Wiki]

24,902/24 = 1,037 MPH
24,902/24/60 = 17 MPM

this would be seemingly ballpark accurate during the equinoxes; it would necessarily speed up if we computed winter solstice [same equation using Tropical circumference] & slowed down during summer solstice [same equation using other tropic]

https://flatearth.freeforums.net/thread/55/circumference-equator-calculate-sun-speed

perhaps it's helpful to show: orbital speeds [sidereal, or from a stationary vantage]

Zodiac orbit = 23.93 hours
Sol orbit = ~24 hours
Lunar orbit = avg ~24.79 hours [fluctuates between 24.65 & 24.95...]

great question(!)
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Speed of the Sun Empty Re: Speed of the Sun

Post by TerraCat Sun May 19, 2024 1:44 am

RileySlowWave wrote:it would necessarily speed up if we computed winter solstice [same equation using Tropical circumference] & slowed down during summer solstice [same equation using other tropic]
https://flatearth.freeforums.net/thread/55/circumference-equator-calculate-sun-speed

RileySlowWave. In the assumption that the sun moves at a higher velocity toward the outside of the plane, how can we explain the duration of sunlight in countries like Argentina, South Africa and Australia? If the sun were moving at a higher velocity for the 'southern hemisphere' countries, they would have a shorter duration of sunlight as the sun would be passing by more quickly.

In the heliocentric model, the Earth moves with circular motion, and therefore the day-to-day change of daylight (e.g. time of sunrise/sunset) should be accelerating toward approx. 21st March - a period that would see the highest day-to-day change of daylight - and decelerating toward approx. 21st December. Or in other words, simple harmonic motion should be observed in the change of sunrise/sunset time. In reality, we see a sunrise/sunset change of around 2 minutes the whole way through January to June, and then a quick deceleration around peak summertime. Even right now in May just four weeks away from peak summer, I'm monitoring it daily and can see it's still a 2 minute-change day-to-day of sunrise/sunset time. This is a blindingly strong proof against the heliocentric model which I don't believe I've heard anyone point out. A bit of an unrelated point, but maybe there's a way it ties in.

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Speed of the Sun Empty Re: Speed of the Sun

Post by RileySlowWave Sun May 19, 2024 8:33 am

hey TerraCat, i appreciate & value your question

In the assumption that the sun moves at a higher velocity toward the outside of the plane, how can we explain the duration of sunlight in countries like Argentina, South Africa and Australia? If the sun were moving at a higher velocity for the 'southern hemisphere' countries, they would have a shorter duration of sunlight as the sun would be passing by more quickly.

i think this is exactly what occurs, yea -- locations directly on the southern tropic experience solstice days of 13h34 minutes; while locations on the northern tropic experience their solstice days of 13hr34 minutes -- the same

let's look at the difference between their shortest days:

southern tropic June 21, 2024 = 10hr41 minutes
northern tropic Dec 21, 2024 = 10hr41 minutes

let's check altitude angles, for interest

northern tropic:
June 21, 2024 = ∠90º zenith
Dec 21, 2024 = ∠43.1º S

southern tropic:
June 21, 2024 = ∠43.2º N
Dec 21, 2024 = ∠90º zenith

so that's a very small difference in angles from one to the other; so this does push us back to the question you asked

logically, if we continue south, we're going to get the longest nights period [farther & farther away from the sun]

if we continue north, we're going to get a strange effect: shorter/longer days until we reach the arctic circle, where the days are longest [up to 24 hrs of course] although the dimmest, where the sun is low on the horizon throughout, & eventually no sun at all seasonally

i'm curious if one continues north even during the summer solstice, will they again find darkness(?)

i'll have to revisit this...

anywho, if one continues to the south of Argentina, their data shows:

June 21, 2024 = 7hr12 minutes ∠11.8º N
Dec 21, 2024 = 17hr20 minutes ∠58.6º N

& if they go to, say, Iceland, which is very north altho shy of the arctic circle, we find:

June 21, 2024 = 21hr08 minutes ∠49.3º S
Dec 21, 2024 = 4hr07 minutes ∠2.7º S

at a glance, this tells us Iceland is more north than Argentina is south

so let's go all the way up to Longyearbyen, Norway in the great arctic circle

June 21, 2024 = up all day ∠35.2º S
Dec 21, 2024 = down all day

kind of interesting: Timeanddate.com shows data for the South Pole, altho is blank on the north... hmmm...

well, they're showing for the South Pole:

June 21, 2024 = down all day
Dec 21, 2024 = up all day [cough cough cough] ∠23.5º N

their data is so screwy on that locale

notice the mental leap one must take to make sense of Argentina vs South Pole [oh man]

i've known this about Timeanddate, & essentially ignore their pole data & rely on populated stuff; otherwise it's a fantastic reference, w/ a grain of salt

so looking over all this stuff, the data shows equal lengths for the tropics; then correspondingly longer days & shorter nights depending on season; so i'm willing to doubt the accuracy of Timeanddate's southern model, at least for now...

i'll check stats for S. Argentina from a couple other sources:

from https://findelmundo.tur.ar/en/c/clima-en-tierra-del-fuego/1041
"The austral summer starts on December 21, and during this season, the island has 18 hours of daylight. The sun rises at 3:30/4:00 AM and sets after 10:00 PM. Although there are days with mild temperatures, they rarely exceed 25º C (77°F) The average temperature during summer is between 10º to 15ºC.

The weather is unstable and can change suddenly from one moment to the next, so you should bear this in mind when planning any activity. It's not unusual that after a few hours of sunshine and nice weather, temperature drops and it gets windy, rainy or cloudy.

When summer ends, by late March, trees begin to change color. For photography lovers and hikers, autumn is the ideal time to enjoy the  landscapes of the island: red, gold, and green forests, cold blue waters and white mountains. However, autumn in Tierra del Fuego is brief. It ends in May, when most of the trees have already lost their foliage and frosts become more frequent. Temperatures at this time usually stay below 10º C. (50°F)

Winter begins on June 21, and on that day Ushuaia celebrates the longest night of the year with live music and other events.

The average temperature in winter ranges between 1º and 6º C, ( 33° to 42°F), although sometimes winds coming from Antarctica can cause polar fronts with temperatures below zero. The lowest temperatures are registered in the north of the island, where the city of Río Grande is located.

Usually, the most heavy snowfalls occur in July and August.  During winter, there are only 7 hours of daylight in Tierra del Fuego. Snowfalls can be experienced until September."


i'll admit it totally baffles me that southern locations can have long days like that... it's nearly a model check

i'll peak at that Río Grande spot it mentioned:

let's try something: knowing that sunlight hours may be intentionally skewed, let's take their [Wiki's] words in a different context, parsing:
[note Río Grande is at sea level]
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Río_Grande,_Tierra_del_Fuego
"Rio Grande's climate is strongly influenced by the ocean: generally quite cool, and sometimes very windy. It has a subantarctic climate (Köppen Dfc; very rare for the Southern Hemisphere) or a subpolar oceanic climate (Köppen Cfc) depending on the isotherm used, with cool temperatures year round. It also closely borders on a cold semi-arid climate (Köppen BSk) and a tundra climate (Köppen ET). Temperatures in the warmest months, January and February average 11 °C (51.8 °F) while temperatures in the coolest month average 0 °C (32.0 °F).[4] With a mean temperature of −0.3 °C (31.5 °F) in the coldest month, Río Grande has the coldest mean monthly temperature among cities in Argentina.[5] Precipitation is low at around 330 millimetres (13 in). Also, due to its latitude, the length of the day varies tremendously across the year. Winter days can have as few as seven hours of sunlight, while summer days stretch to seventeen hours. Frost occurs throughout the year, and winter temperatures can remain below freezing for relatively long periods of time.[6] As such, the frost free period is very short with the first date of frost being 23 February and the last date of frost being 22 November.[7] During the summer, conditions are generally very windy and cloudy, and nights remain cold. Freak snowfalls can occur even in midsummer. The highest recorded temperature was 30.8 °C (87.4 °F) on 4 February 2019.[8] It is believed that this is the southernmost recorded instance where temperatures exceed 30 °C (86 °F).[9] The lowest recorded temperature was −22.2 °C (−8.0 °F) on 19 July 1984."

so a city at sea level that supposedly experiences up to 18 hours of sun stays frosty most of the year, & stays mostly cool

i'm at a loss for explaining longer days in the way south; it really does seem like they'd be shorter; especially from a point [city]

In the heliocentric model, the Earth moves with circular motion, and therefore the day-to-day change of daylight (e.g. time of sunrise/sunset) should be accelerating toward approx. 21st March - a period that would see the highest day-to-day change of daylight - and decelerating toward approx. 21st December. Or in other words, simple harmonic motion should be observed in the change of sunrise/sunset time. In reality, we see a sunrise/sunset change of around 2 minutes the whole way through January to June, and then a quick deceleration around peak summertime. Even right now in May just four weeks away from peak summer, I'm monitoring it daily and can see it's still a 2 minute-change day-to-day of sunrise/sunset time. This is a blindingly strong proof against the heliocentric model which I don't believe I've heard anyone point out. A bit of an unrelated point, but maybe there's a way it ties in.

i agree that the rate of change increases up to the Equinox; then decreases until the Solstice [where the rate of change is lowest]; then increases again over the hump until slowing at the other Solstice

the moon is similar: the longest durations correspond w/ zenith altitude; so when they're closest to 90º we should have the longest visibility of them

arctic circle is a bit wonky w/ the 24-hr sun [curious if the moon is likewise visible during its northern tropic, which i've seen to extend beyond Sol's, so it darned well should be visible 24/7 for at least a day or two per month...]

hey, great question

i have a ton to learn on this stuff as well
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