Re: How To Debate With Heliocentric Globetrotters?

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:39 pm

Posted by csp on 07/08/2015
Those photos are definitely not mirages, you can see the sun "setting" behind the mountain completely blocking the sunlight revealing the shape of the peak. If it was a mirage, the "hot and cold air" would have to be bending ALL that light around the GLOBE over 11,000m of curvature without any distortion, tell him to think about that for a second!

Also note ones like this which show entire mountain ranges at great distances, you can see the base right to the top - centered on the horizon

How To Debate With Heliocentric Globetrotters? - Page 2 Smiley

EDIT: Ask others have suggested, don't waste too much time - plant the seed and hope it takes off

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:39 pm

Posted by allbetsareoff on 07/11/2015
I am having an ongoing debate / conversation with my dad.... He is open to a lot of the usual conspiracy's (9/11 etc) but thinks I am a down right loony when it comes to FE. Anyway he keeps sighting theoretical science and mathematics... the usual dogma regarding the floating, spinning ball earth theory.

He thinks that the horizon is the magical point at which things disappear over the curve of the earth.... I am trying to inform him that the horizon is the limit to our vision based on our perspective (correct me if I am getting this wrong).

Here is an email I sent him to help inform him of the visual phenomenon of vanishing point and diminishing objects....see what you think?

Hey Jimmy,

Take a look at this picture that I took this arvo…

How To Debate With Heliocentric Globetrotters? - Page 2 YMNnvjNkSSUvcp3As6z5

How To Debate With Heliocentric Globetrotters? - Page 2 YMNnvjNkSSUvcp3As6z5

SEE BELOW...

Now, lets forget the fact that its flat…. its too short a distance to prove or disprove the floating, spinning ball earth theory, so lets leave that for a sec.

Take a look at those buildings on the Surfers Paradise skyline.

Pretty small aren’t they? And we’re not that far away from them hey?

To be exact we are only 6.1km away from the Q1…. I measured it on google earth.

Now what your are seeing is a visual phenomenon called vanishing point. From our perspective the buildings look small like you could pick them up between your thumb and forefinger…. But we know that the Q1 is one of the tallest buildings in Australia… but look how small its gets from only 6 k’s away.

Imagine how small it would look from double that distance? Small i bet, now imagine 50kms… do you think you could still see it…maybe? but it would be tiny!

The point I am making is this…. we have limits to our vision…. there is a limit to how far we can see…. it’s got nothing to do with things disappearing over a curve or hill, (thats the globe propaganda at work) it has to do with the distance from the object the observer is! Eventually we can no longer see things because of this limit to our vision.

The bigger something is that we are observing or the higher our perspective is, means that some things can be seen from a greater distance.

Imagine you are standing on a balcony in the Q1 at the same height as me…. could we see each other? No bloody way! Our eyes cannot see because our vision is not that good….. What if we improve our vision? Lets say we look through a high powered telescope (the telescope improves our vision)…guess what? Now I can see you waving back at me!!!

The “powers that be” have used this vision impairment and vanishing point phenomenon to trick us into thinking that the horizon is where things magically disappear over the curve of the floating spinning ball earth…. this is not so. The horizon is merely the limit to our vision!

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:40 pm

Posted by csp on 07/11/2015

Jul 11, 2015 0:03:36 GMT allbetsareoff said:
Imagine you are standing on a balcony in the Q1 at the same height as me…. could we see each other? No bloody way! Our eyes cannot see because our vision is not that good….. What if we improve our vision? Lets say we look through a high powered telescope (the telescope improves our vision)…guess what? Now I can see you waving back at me!!!

The “powers that be” have used this vision impairment and vanishing point phenomenon to trick us into thinking that the horizon is where things magically disappear over the curve of the floating spinning ball earth…. this is not so. The horizon is merely the limit to our vision!

Great work - my parents aren't even open to the discussion so I commend your efforts

Have you linked him to the 381KM picture? If not, that should further illustrate your point!

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:40 pm

Posted by allbetsareoff on 07/11/2015
Thanks CSP, where do I find the 381km picture?

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:41 pm

Posted by csp on 07/11/2015

Jul 11, 2015 0:19:02 GMT allbetsareoff said:
Thanks CSP, where do I find the 381km picture?

This one here:

translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://www.dalekieobserwacje.eu/miraz-alp-francuskich-widziany-z-pirenejow-rekord-381-km/

Taken by polish long range photographers. They have many more "impossible" pictures - but I like the ones with the "sunset" as it blows the "superior mirage" reasoning that most "globers" like to use out of the water.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:42 pm

Posted by rebecca on 07/11/2015

Jul 11, 2015 0:03:36 GMT allbetsareoff said:
I am having an ongoing debate / conversation with my dad.... He is open to a lot of the usual conspiracy's (9/11 etc) but thinks I am a down right loony when it comes to FE. Anyway he keeps sighting theoretical science and mathematics... the usual dogma regarding the floating, spinning ball earth theory.

He thinks that the horizon is the magical point at which things disappear over the curve of the earth.... I am trying to inform him that the horizon is the limit to our vision based on our perspective (correct me if I am getting this wrong).

Here is an email I sent him to help inform him of the visual phenomenon of vanishing point and diminishing objects....see what you think?

Hi I completely hear your frustration. My discussion with my friend has come to nothing. I have sent him photos and he tells me that it is about the light bending! And if the earth was flat, according to him, then you could see the light of distant city from 1,7000ks away. I am not sure why he came up with that number! Anyway I have told him about perspective but he doesn't or won't get it. Despite the fact that he can rattle off all these numbers and maths and longitude and latitude, seemingly from the top of his head!

The lunar eclipse inconsistencies have also come to nothing also. I have sighted examples of the total eclipse of the moon with the sun still being visible and according to science this is impossible. So in one email he tells me that the sun must be behind the earth for a total eclipse. Then he will say that it is perfectly normal to see the sun during the total eclipse. Not at the beginning or anything but when the moon is dark! We even have sent each other the same links on how an eclipse, according to science, occurs.

Now I have asked him to send me a link with a diagram as his list of dates and times of lunar eclipses is just not helping. If not if he can come up with a solid reason for the sun and the moon to be visible during a total then he should write a paper on it and enlighten people.

On one of my emails I asked him at what temp does steel melt and does he think kerosene could do the job. But he won't answer me.

So I am giving up!

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:42 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 07/13/2015
Let us stop clogging up the forum with his rambling nonsense; it is obvious that he is far too deluded and brainwashed to ever actually see the truth. Stop wasting your time with him. If he wants to live with his eyes shut, then let him.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:43 pm

Posted by sargentsucks on 07/14/2015
Can't stop laughing at the video where he says "you can see the sun is directly 180° from the moon" and as he stretches his arms out he suddenly realizes he needs to rotate one arm around to about 230° to point to the moon. That's right just say whatever you want we can't think for ourselves, baaaaaahhhhhh

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:43 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/18/2015
I have talked about flat earth with four people so far. Three of them were quickly convinced that it is true. One person is not fully convinced bit still accepts it as a plausible possibility. I think there are some basic rules that you have to follow in order to help people see it for themselves.

For example, If you start by claiming that earth is flat and argue from there, you immediately set off all of their defense mechanisms and now they will by default question everything you say and will be very sceptical.

What I did was started a casual conversation ina form of anecdote. I followed the flat earth clues model and talked about the moon the Byrd expedition, because that is interesting stuff that makes people curious.

All I did then was to present the proofs of flat earth without mentioning flat earth. All the time they were wondering what is the conclusion and so they wetter curious and willing to listen.

I said things like: there is this funny thing with the stars... Or: take a look at this map. Here you can see all planes in the world. Do you notice anything odd?

After going from the moon, the Antarctic, the star trails, flight routes, Copernicus, they are dying to hear the conclusion, as they now see for themselves that something is wrong. And when they agree to see the same things I see, than I show them the NATO flag and the FE map and reveal that this is the map that the military and plane companies use. And then I tell them why. And then I connect everything I said earlier with that.

Then I show them Eric's videos. Their default position changed from "you're nuts! I'm leaving" to "tell me more about this"

There was a major additional factor. All of those people were close friends and relatives who trust me. I didn't start by trying to prove them anything. I was having a normal conversation with them.

I remember when I tried to push some different topic and I blew the fuse by starting with conclusion and trying to prove it.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:43 pm

Posted by tewodros on 07/18/2015
In logic, there is a fundamental principle titled the *law* of non-contradiction [~(Q &~Q)]. We can apply this *LAW* to a basic modus tollens argument [If P > Q, ~Q ergo ~P]:

(P) If the earth is a globe then (Q) that globe [by the definition of a "globe"!] will have quantifiable curvature.

There is NO quantifiable curvature(~Q), therefore the earth is NOT a globe (~P)

Forgive me if this seems over-simplistic, but for me, it really is that simple, the earth cannot logically be both curved (Q) and have no quantifiable curvature(~Q)

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:46 pm

Posted by HarunDada on 08/17/2015

Jul 7, 2015 13:19:21 GMT Admin said:
Add "airplanes auto-correcting perfectly for the supposed curvature of the Earth" to Gravity's magical properties:

Yes! Gravity is their God! In order to debate ball Earthers, you must be able to slay Gravity. Once you have killed the idea of Gravity in their minds, it will be easier to get across other arguments like flying over a flat plane and not a curve, and the flatness of water. As long as they have Gravity to retreat to you will get nowhere.

I like to remind them that Gravity, while grandiose, is just a theory. I explain to them that a theory is simply an idea that has not been proven. Anyone can have an idea, but it doesn't become fact or truth until the idea has been proven.

In order to prove a theory, I tell them, you have do devise tests and experiments that can be repeated over and over with the same results. Only then will a theory become fact. After I explain this, I return to the topic of Gravity and explain how Gravity can not be tested, or demonstrated.

The main tenant of Gravity is not that things fall, as most people think (that can be shown through density and buoyancy). The main tenant of Gravity is that objects of great mass attract objects of lesser mass. I explain to the ball Earther that that phenomenon does not occur anywhere in nature. I ask them for examples where less massive objects are attracted to more massive objects and, of course, they can not come up with any.

Then explain to them that Gravity is a THEORY that has never been proven and cannot be demonstrated.

Since it is a theory that can't be proven, then it cannot be used to override laws of nature that can be proven; like water settles to flatness and will not curve around a convex surface such as a ball. Nor could you use Gravity to cancel out the known, tested and proved centrifugal force that comes into play with spinning objects. If Earth was spinning at over 1,000 mph at the equator, then the natural reaction of water, or any other object, would be to be repelled or thrown from the surface of the spinning object. Again the false theory of gravity is given as the reason why nature doesn't take its course.

So it is Gravity that must be assaulted and slain before you can start to get through the deep conditioning of ball Earthers. The heliocentric model, literally, falls apart without the science priests' most coveted invention, Gravity. Always remind them that modern science has had over 500 years to prove Gravity, but never has. The reason is that it is just a fairy tale that science priests use to make the monsters of truth go away....

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:46 pm

Posted by seeker on 08/17/2015
Well put, harundada.

By the way, I believe the word is tenet, rather than tenant.

Regarding the movement, flat earth is a meme rippling through society right now, and it is the beginning of an unstoppable wave of truth. Those who resist it do so at their own delusion. Some can be reached by logic, while others can not. Some who are not ready now will be ready to accept the truth later.

Thus it behooves the flat earther to approach others with respect, with gentleness and understanding, and with calmness that rests in the truth, rather than with any sort of bombast, even in response to irrationality on the part of the other.

And this is generally what is happening out there; it is usually the 'ball-earthers' who raise voices in anger and sometimes resort to personal attacks during conversations about this subject.

But let us be clear, the subject is not a matter for debate. It is a matter of education, or more properly re-education. And ultimately that is something each one must do for oneself. All that we can do for another is possibly to help them to see.

What many are attached to is scientism. Scientism is a religion in that it is based chiefly on belief. Most people find critical thinking and actual investigation difficult. Most are comfortable with belief.

Flat earthers are interested in science, something very different.

We must understand the mindset of others. Many of them cling to favorite or pet beliefs, and hold them as their personal proofs to verify the whole, such as lunar eclipse, moon phases, supposed views of curvature, ships disappearing hull-first, images of earth from space, or even ballistic reports from a well-respected sniper in regard to the 'Coriolis Effect.'

It can be difficult to counter hard-held beliefs, however incomplete or illogical. Our best tools are our own knowledge and of course our professional/personable demeanor. We best prepare ourselves by feeding ourselves with knowledge about our subject, or in other words becoming scientists ourselves, to counter the scientism.

We do this to whatever extent we can; it is not obligatory that we be experts in every aspect of the vast subject.

Let us remember, though, that the antidote to scientism is science -- geometry, perspective, logic, observation, and all the rest that goes into it.

And good cheer. Always maintaining good cheer. For the movement has begun and cannot be stopped now. We can rest assured in that, as we spread the word.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:47 pm

Posted by rare on 08/17/2015
Very good post Seeker. I concur. I find it best to take the higher road also. Most of us are done with refuting the standard arguments, and debate is near pointless with those who cling onto a rock and play with their balls.

Be respectful, be courteous, achieve through knowledge and scientific procedure and method rather than theory (only in the last century did theory become fact) and understand that philosophy and the history of our ancients went hand in hand with science until only comparatively very lately.

Get out of any shout-down argument and go Ghandi on their ass.

With more of us with attitudes like yours we overcome with intelligence and reason, logic and observation, and by accepting nothing as 'irrefutable' (including our own evidence) we become the more conscientious, more open-minded and succeed because we are standing on the shoulders of giants and listening to how science used to be and doing it with a gentle hand on the shoulder to the blind and with the other hand showing them the world. With open hands, not fists.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:47 pm

Posted by HarunDada on 08/17/2015
Well said, both Rare and Seeker! Yes, our goal should not be to out yell, or out ridicule anyone. I agree, maintain composure, but stand firm on your argument using facts and true science to support you.

If a person is too stubborn to see common logic, it is their conditioning that is keeping them from the truth. If I can't convince them right away, I at least plant some seeds that will inevitably grow in the future. Most battles are won through attrition and take some time. If you can't win outright, make sure you have made some toe holds that you can come back to later.

And oh yeah, thanks Seeker for the correction. Auto correct can be a b!?$&

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:48 pm

Posted by appeal2reason on 08/30/2015
For the record I am having a BALL shutting down the shills on youtube/GLP. (like my joke?) My personal favorite is to corner them on gravity.

This force must be incredibly powerful to keep planets in orbit as well as our atmosphere, people, buildings and oceans glued to the face of a ball earth spinning at 1000mph and orbiting the sun at ten times that speed. What would happen if I sent a wet tennis ball soaring through the air? Amazingly it is also weak enough to let fish swim in the waters with ease and allow the tiniest of insects to dart and fly around in any which way they please. See, no fancy math formulas, just COMMON SENSE. (thanks to Eric and the rest of IFERS for this train of thought)

Gets them each time. It is also a great opener when trying to introduce someone slowly to the Flat earth, no need to even mention anything about a flat earth. Uncovering that lie will only lead them down the road to a flat earth.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:49 pm

Posted by putontheglasses on 09/03/2015
Great topic, hearing everyone's ideas on how best to approach this is going to be really valuable. I've now spoken to 2 friends about it, both of which I've had long talks about many other big lies before in the past. One friend was almost instantly open to the idea, went and did his research and is now completely on board. The other one, not so much, he (half-jokingly) said that I was a mad bastard and shouldn't tell anyone else about it

How To Debate With Heliocentric Globetrotters? - Page 2 Grin

On reflection, I think the major difference between the 2 of them has to do with openness to spirituality and knowledge of our divine consciousness. It's the 'why' that is going to be a barrier for many. The fact that we have an eternal spirit and the efforts of the powers that be to dampen and deny this truth, by making us feel like an insignificant speck in an infinite universe, really is key. Unfortunately it's really not something that you can convey in a sentence, especially to someone not used to thinking about such things... regardless how knowledgeable they are about any other conspiracies. Neither is it something that is visibly provable. I think it's genuinely scary for some people to contemplate because of a lack of understanding.

It just makes so much sense when you look at the big picture. This is a theme which has been running around my head for a long time, the simplicity of figuratively stepping back further and further until all the dots are connected.

For me these are the top three issues, and may hold a key for convincing some:

1. They lie about our divine and immortal spirit (encompassing life after death/ God/ our importance in the universe...)
2. They lie about the flat Earth (beautifully apparent for anyone who opens their eyes)
3. They lie about space (also easy to bust, and can be hilarious to watch the bullshit from the Nassholes digging themselves further and further into a hole)

It just may turn out that the first is the tough one. If you crack that though, you've got a delicious reality sandwich with our beautiful flat earth as filling. I think my doubter friend may come round once he realises that the idea isn't something to be afraid of.
We need all the help we can get to keep this snowball rolling.

by Thinkforyourself Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:50 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 09/03/2015

Sept 3, 2015 12:06:17 GMT putontheglasses said:
Great topic, hearing everyone's ideas on how best to approach this is going to be really valuable. I've now spoken to 2 friends about it, both of which I've had long talks about many other big lies before in the past. One friend was almost instantly open to the idea, went and did his research and is now completely on board. The other one, not so much, he (half-jokingly) said that I was a mad bastard and shouldn't tell anyone else about it

I personally didn't tell my friend straight away; instead, I asked him if he knew how many 'genuine' photos NASA has taken of Earth from space, and when he found out that it was only one, the 'Blue Marble', and that it was an admitted fake, that shocked him and he asked 'I wonder why'.

I then told him that the official, mainstream, White House supported 'scientist' Neil Degrasse Tyson is now claiming that the world is an oblate spheroid, and not round, and thus NASA have been lying to us for decades, as have all of the Governments involved. That really angered him, and completely destroyed his faith in NASA.

He then asked me what shape I thought the planet was, and I told him a few facts that are easily observable, such as the horizon alway being flat, and how it rises with our eye-level in airplanes on both sides of the plane. I told him about lighthouses being seen many, many miles away, and about architects and engineers not taking curvature into account in their planning.

All of that more or less convinced him that the Earth was not a globe and that it was Flat.

In other words, it is easier to destroy existing Ball Earth 'facts' at first, and then to go on to mention the Flat Earth facts.

by FL@T-E@RTH Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:01 pm

He states he set the North & South points at 55 degrees on the ball "I positioned them APPROXIMATELY" "these correspond ROUGHLY"
Nothing like a 'roughly approximated starting point' in the scientific method to help skew your results!
He also uses a smart phone as the observation point which is obviously so far out of scale to make it laughable as proof.
The so called position of the SUN (light source) is nowhere near to scale of the alleged 93 Million miles and 109 times the size of his 'globe earth' and his alleged heliocentric proof.
And of course, he uses the Flat Earth Society to build his geocentric model.

He is a shill, he has 2 videos, both attempting to debunk Flat Earth, built completely out of scale which an observation point corresponding to a human observer being 150 miles above the 'globe surface'
He is worse than that Alex Chertnik Jew on Youtube, with his video that is full of deceit claiming to be proof, it's easy to account for 100m of hidden tower when you are at sea-level observing and you use the height of a tower, skillfully omitting the tower is actually over 60m above sea-level and not taking in to account the 30m of swell from the rough seas.

DEBUNKED

EDIT
'seems the shills video post has been removed whilst I was debunking it'

by Foreverlearning Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:30 pm

I had a friend over lastnight and he is brainwashed like most. I kept dropping subtle question to him like the size of the moon from which it was first rising up from the horizon to when it was completely over head. He agreed with my observation and thought that to be strange, without trying to explain it with the BS we are spoon fed. I had also mentioned to him that there was a guy on youtube demonstrating the light temperature of the moon being cooler then the shade, and again he found that bizarre without trying to explain it.
I personally find this approach quite effective because I am simply just asking a question based on observable logic and not attacking his intelligence or his beliefs.
When we start attacking brainwashed people and telling them they are worng about everything they have learned from birth gets very diluted with emotions and then becomes a heated discussion, which I think we need to avoid to try and get our points across. These people, including myself at one point in my life, never wanted or needed to question the official narrative, but once you start to open your mind to these questions, you truly start to think more critically and less dependent on the information we are being fed from main stream media and controlled oppositions.

by **Admin** Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:50 am

Good points, I use this technique as well and find it works best. Plant seeds, ask leading questions, find common ground and let the conversation flow from there. Thanks for helping spread the good word FL! Peace

by ABalancedKarma Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:03 am

as a matter of fact, there are some people who are too brainwashed and will never understand. I lost some "friends" (*) because they called me a stupid, even after countless proofs I provided. some won't even look, others would go hunting for bullshit explanations because they REFUSE to think it could even be possible. what a shame. the "everyone knows it's a ball" paradigm is enough for them. guess what, I don't really care about them anymore: sometimes you do like people and you don't really see 'em for what they are (the worst example being when you're in love...), then you realize you can't have anything in common with people who ARE the system, even if they claim to be against the system, so I just moved on, looking for some intelligent friends this time, not sheeples.
btw, I managed to wake up some other friends and some members of my family Very Happy

(*)actually they lost me, it was me saying goodbye.

by ABalancedKarma Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:19 pm

Today I had a discussion on facebook with an "aerospace engineer"... Surprised

He's not a "real" friend of mine, I know him, we have some friends in common, but that's all...

It was like that: "it's trigonometry"; "there is curvature, watch this video and read this (bullshit) explanation"; "earth is too big to see curvature"; "fata morgana"; "there are polar routes"; "coriolis effect is real"; "inertial system"; "everything nasa is legit"; "stars change in million years"; "a nikon p900 is not good to see stars/planets, go to an astronomical observatory to see with your own eyes"...
I provided countless proofs, but he just would not listen, either not answering or denying the evidence. Rolling Eyes

I told him that water does not curve, curvature does not apply to "real" (civil) engineering, solar vs sidereal day/year, coriolis is bullshit, real science always failed to detect any motion, that he's working within an inertial system for a reason, and provided videos and hard evidence nasa/esa/asi are frauds, magic and selective gravity is total bullshit, the fixed polar star above north pole is not by chance, etc. etc. etc.

Then I had to go, it was like talking to the wall, but I'm not surprised... "Wake up, you're living in the dark age" he said...

...Or maybe you just don't want to see the truth, I replied. I said that this is not science, it's science fiction, and that it is just another religion, since you have to beLIEve gravity and a lot of bullshit, and the absurd big bang!

Somehow, I think we'll never agree Very Happy

, but I told him I won't go back into believing nasa crap since I'm well aware it is fake, and HE should wake up.

...Maybe he's scared to lose his bullshit job? Cool

not my problem/fault.

Funny thing is, years ago another "aerospace engineer" was part of my circle of friends, but we never really were friends, we just had friends in common: he thought I was some loser because I'm "just a music guy" and he felt he was far superior because of his "job" Very Happy

In reality, he was a total joke, the classic butt-ugly nerd with glasses that thinks all is math, equations etc. no wonder these people can't see the truth: they feel they're smartass, when they're just stupid nerd nasa fanboys. Deceived and deceivers, but they will never realize. Total assholes. Now, since I had a fight with him and his girlfriend years ago, I'm not seeing/talking to him anymore, and I wonder how superior he should think he is now, since I'm sure someone said 'em "hey, that loser's even a flat earther now" Laughing

So, it seems I'm surrounded by geniuses, but they can't even see how fake all that crap is. Brainwashed by nasa and science fiction. These people are total jokes.

by ABalancedKarma Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:29 pm

This is getting weirder and weirder by the day. One of my ex schoolmate works at ESA too.
If you think it's impossible, I can assure you my whole life is a collection of weird, seemingly unrelated events, that literally led me to realize the true nature of the society we live in. I've been introduced to the flat earth totally by chance, by a friend of mine who one day just told me "there are people who think the earth is flat", otherwise I wouldn't even know the subject! I thought "ok, let's see how's possible they can say something so strange and seemingly impossible"... The video he pointed me to, my first "flat earth" video, was v-sauce total bullshit flat earth mock video. I felt there was something goin' on, and I didn't buy his bullshit explanation, so I kept on searching for more videos and proofs. Weeks later, after literally entire days spent studying the subject, and discussing about it with this friend of mine, I realized the heliocentric model was total bullshit; nonetheless he came to totally different conclusions, refusing to see all the inconsistencies of space agencies and the metaphysicians and occultists who were behind the heliocentric model and space bullshit. We started together then I ended up seeing the truth, and he believing nasa and all the crap. He still thinks ships do disappear over the curvature Mad

[I ended up breaking our friendship when he told me I'm a "moron" because of the flat earth, and "an hideous person" because of the holohoax. Guess what, I don't miss that "friend".]
Back to the aerospace engineer, the ex-schoolmate: guess what!? He too was a nerd, totally stupid person... 100% proof they hire nerds, good with equations and the like, but totally brainwashed and disconnected from reality. These clowns think they're geniuses because they graduated in aerospace engineering. So, it's totally impossible they can ever manage to wake up, they should realize their whole life is a fraud, and they're paid to make projects of things that do not exist, and that the elite use the space scam for their evil plans. Common, non-brainwashed people, at least ask themselves "why do they spent billions of dollars with space when people is starving in Africa and in other parts of the world? Shouldn't they use it for good stuff instead?" Well, we know why.
Never give up! Some are part of the scam and will refuse to see the truth, but common people, while unaware of all this and clueless, still can be awaken.

by Foreverlearning Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:09 pm

Hi AbaiancedKarma welcome to the forum.
I can certainly relate with you on how frustrating it can be, but we have to understand most of us were at this point in our lives. I believe the realization has to come from the individual and not necessarily forced upon them in a lecturing fashion. We are typically emotionally attached to our beliefs, and is incredibly hard to separate ourselves from what we've been told as truth most our life.

by ABalancedKarma Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:56 am

I can understand, but society is "going south", literally, and unfortunately it's not Antarctica Laughing

People HAS to wake up before it's too late, they're totally brainwashed! I can't believe anyone can look at nasa/esa/asi/etc. crap and think it's legit! I can't believe people trusting politicians and religious leaders! I can't believe people accepting the fake rothschild's money! I can't believe people can't see jewsatanists are our master of puppets. But there's a reason for that: I'M NO PUPPET, NEVER BEEN. So we have to manage to cut the strings, set the puppets free, and take back our world before the psychopaths totally destroy everything.

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