Re: Warning For Religious People

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:56 pm

Posted by Admin on 06/20/2015
As I mentioned in the OP, if you have evidence/research "that Jesus did in fact exist" you are welcome to share it with us here, just as I have been sharing evidence/research in this thread proving that he clearly did NOT exist. Please read the entire thread before re-posting the forgeries of Josephus or the testimony of Tacitus or others who weren't even alive during the supposed 33 year life of your invisible friend.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:57 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 06/21/2015

Jun 20, 2015 13:20:03 GMT antjraf said:
Jun 20, 2015 11:41:21 GMT thinkforyourself said:
Eric has made his opinion extremely clear regarding the discussion of religion on this forum, and the discussion Global Earth theories. We do not allow the promotion of NWO nonsense on this forum.

Eric has single handedly revived the flat earth truth movement, and he relaunched IFERS. If he doesn't want the discussion of certain topics, that is his decision, and if you don't like it, you can leave the forum.

If you actually bother to read through the threads on this forum, you will find hundreds of conversations and debates on many different topics. We do consider and disprove every single Global Earther lie that is thrown at us, and if you cannot see that, then this forum may not be the place for you.

Please have the respect and decency to not criticise the rules of this forum without properly understanding them, and without properly investigating the forum archives.

I myself have had many interesting debates and disagreements with many other members. We do have free speech here, as long as you don't try to promote the Global Earth lie, and as long as you don't disagree with our belief in a Flat Earth. After all, this is a Flat Earth research forum.

We are not here to get bogged down in one debate after the other with NWO Shills or deluded, brainwashed, close-minded and ignorant people who refuse to see the truth in Eric's work.

I would think that the wise, and those who are diligent after the truth, would not be automatically dismissive when faced with reasonable and rational evidence. This is why I came here; I see the arguments for flat earth as reasonable and rational while warranting further study. I appreciate the work and research done and find it entirely plausible. I also do not find it beyond the intent and capability of those in high positions of government and ORGANIZED religion [meaning 501 c (3) or any "religion" which promotes an elite authority class (ie. Pope, etc.) and the lower masses] to obfuscate the truth for personal gain.

Not all people of faith should be lumped into the "religion" group as defined by most at this forum. I've already stated the word religion can simply mean a "belief in a divine power", which would mean that Eric is religious by THAT definition - he has stated that he believes the heavens and the earth are real and were created by an intelligent divine being.

Close-mindedness defeats productiveness and advancement; that applies to all sides of a debate. I do not see how evidence that Jesus did in fact exist hurts the cause of flat earth theory; I believe it actually strengthens it further.

At any rate, that is not why I am here; my intent was/is not to "preach". However, I must respond to blatantly false statements regarding "zero" evidence or I would be simply a weak hypocrite.

I am ready to move on and continue my study here; my goal is to research the facts and be well-versed in the true material so as to be able to share it with others in a lucid and coherent manner.

We have no problems with evidence being posted if you have any, as Eric just confirmed. If you have any, please post it.

I linked you to a thread that I started where we discussed such evidence, so please let us not pretend that the forum is automatically dismissive to reasonable evidence. I posted several links, and Eric took the time to reply in a kind and polite manner. Have I been banned? No, because I was researching the truth, not pushing an agenda.

I replied to you because you insulted the forum when you inferred that it dismissed evidence. This forum allows debate and free speech, but we have been inundated with many religious zealots and Global Earth Shills pushing their agendas, and that is why we must remain vigilant. This forum would not exist if we allowed it to be flooded with meaningless drivel.

Basically, contribute evidence, and you will be treated with respect, but if you simply join the forum, leave a couple of posts, and then insult us, you will be called out for it.

So, where is the evidence you wanted us to see? If you want, post it in the relevant thread that I linked you to.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:58 pm

Posted by Admin on 06/21/2015
More proof of Astrotheology as the basis of the Judeo-Christian myth:

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:59 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 06/21/2015

Jun 21, 2015 13:53:55 GMT antjraf said:
Again, my intention is to learn about the flat earth theory and discern whether or not the evidence proves its veracity. I have no 'skin in the game" either way; I have discarded much of what "conventional Christianity" teaches already so my mind is not only open but diligent after the truth.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/#note37r

This link, which I already posted, provides an enormous amount of research which can be studied and verified by anyone who cares to take the time to objectively read the material and follow the footnotes. For those who have made up their mind and do not wish to delve further on the topic, it is too time consuming and extensive to give it the proper attention it deserves. That is fine.

No one was there, so no one can say with absolution that He either did or did not exist. We must ask ourselves honestly, "what does the available evidence show us?" I believe it shows He did exist and that DOES NOT harm flat earth theory in any way in my opinion.

Did you read through the thread that I linked you to? We discussed this very subject. You may find it interesting.

One member here, Schpankme, does not believe that Tacitus was even a real person, and he explains why in the thread.

Eric posted a video of Christopher Hitchens' speaking about Jesus, and in that video he says that a Preacher named Yeshua may have lived, even if he wasn't the Son of God.

So please, read through the thread and you will see that we are not lazy, we have given the evidence the proper attention it deserves, and we have all formed our own opinions after reading it and discussing it.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:59 pm

Posted by Admin on 06/21/2015
Just like I said, Tacitus, Josephus, and all the others I mentioned who were not even contemporaries of the supposed Jesus! Lucian of Samosata (115-200 A.D.) - How is the testimony of someone born almost a hundred years after Jesus' supposed death valid or proof of his existence!? Your Christian confirmation bias is showing. Please watch the documentary I posted above and comment back here what you thought of it. It's only 2 hours, and as a Christian you should really want to know the truth of where your religion comes from.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:00 pm

Posted by Admin on 06/22/2015

Jun 21, 2015 15:01:05 GMT antjraf said:
I have watched/read much about the Zeitgiest material, gnostic material, theosophy, kundalini, esoterism, etc.
I believe in the Creator/creation paradigm and hierarchy so I cannot accept that which is counter to this belief.
As I said, Jesus' existence DOES NOT threaten the flat earth theory in the least, so let us move on and continue our quest for truth.

^^^ Christian confirmation bias: "I believe ... so I cannot accept that which is counter to this belief." Well, at least you acknowledge it. As for "let us move on and continue our quest for truth," you cannot move on or continue your quest for truth because, as you said, you "cannot accept that which is counter to (your literalist Christian) belief." As long as you're taking stories of talking snakes and men living inside whales literally you'll never be able to "move on and continue your quest for the truth."

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:00 pm

Posted by Admin on 06/22/2015
I'm not "Anti-Christian," I'm Pro-Truth, and literalist Christianity where you are told to accept the invisible deity of a supposed historical personage from 2000 years ago to live inside your heart is not what the Bible or Christianity is/was ever supposed to be about. Since you're bringing no valid evidence for your belief to the table I think you certainly should "bow out" as you said.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:01 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 06/22/2015

Jun 21, 2015 15:51:40 GMT antjraf said:
Thanks for the confirmation Eric; you cannot even be honest regarding your utter disdain for Christianity as evidenced by the material you cut and paste and the comments you write which are obviously full of vitriol.

I will leave your little sandbox. The arrogance of youth will pass with time (do you even shave yet?); with age comes wisdom and you may find your writings to be a bit close-minded and unnecessarily harsh in years to come. Perhaps not.

The "Christianity" you hate is what I also find to be false, but you cannot seem to get past that as evidenced by you lumping me in with those who believe in the idiotic idea of talking snakes - ridiculous.

Feel free to delete my account immediately.

How dare you try to spin this as if Eric is being rude. You are the person who signed up and criticised us within your first 3 or 4 comments. You have repeatedly failed to acknowledge that we have linked you to the thread where we discussed the very subject you accused us of ignoring.

Basically, you are the one with the attitude problem, and you have shown no respect for Eric, who has single handedly revived the Flat Earth movement.

Why don't you stop wasting our time, admit that you are not really interested in learning and move on.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:02 pm

Posted by aleksandar2015 on 06/22/2015

Jun 21, 2015 15:51:40 GMT antjraf said:
Thanks for the confirmation Eric; you cannot even be honest regarding your utter disdain for Christianity as evidenced by the material you cut and paste and the comments you write which are obviously full of vitriol.

I will leave your little sandbox. The arrogance of youth will pass with time (do you even shave yet?); with age comes wisdom and you may find your writings to be a bit close-minded and unnecessarily harsh in years to come. Perhaps not.

The "Christianity" you hate is what I also find to be false, but you cannot seem to get past that as evidenced by you lumping me in with those who believe in the idiotic idea of talking snakes - ridiculous.

Feel free to delete my account immediately.

I think that you may have misunderstood what is this forum is about. Nobody is going to judge about your beliefs as long as you are not promoting them. Example for that is MrThriveAndSurvive who is a christian (as far as I can tell) but still Eric posted his videos a few hours ago. Look at this also.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:03 pm

Posted by lizardking on 06/22/2015

Jun 21, 2015 16:14:53 GMT antjraf said:
My first 3 or 4 comments were observations and provided an opposing viewpoint regarding what is considered "Christianity". In case you missed it, I was most critical of the people who claim to speak and act in His name who do not come close to The Way Jesus lived and taught. I find myself outside of that "Christian" click as well, however, I found it necessary to make a distinction rather than agree to the lumping in of all in one pot.

You make an baseless accusation regarding my respect for Eric's work; your "silence the opposition" tactics are all too familiar.

I already stated that my account can be deleted at any time; do not falsely accuse me of not being interested in learning. I will continue to study the material without posting to the forum because I find it to have merit.

Your observations had already been recognised here, Eric does not condemn Jesus as a figure and he has highlighted the positive/relevant parts of the Bible on more than one occasion.

No one is trying to silence you. You were given multiple opportunities to present a case and instead you criticised the forum and asked to have your account deleted. Well, I will do one better and ban you, because your attitude is not wanted and you have failed to contribute anything and instead decided to insult Eric.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 07/02/2015
I have cleaned up this thread, so let us now keep it on topic.

This thread is a warning for all religious, as opposed to spiritual members; Eric is clear in his belief's and if you don't like them, just don't talk about religion here or leave.

Thanks.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm

Posted by ourjesuitpaymasters on 07/06/2015
I find it amazing that the Bible talks about a flat earth. Every time I research into conspiracy, the truth always points me to the Bible. I don't even come from a religious background, and it's simply amazing that the Bible actively talks about deception, and talks about the true power holders of this planet, that of the Papacy.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:05 pm

Posted by thinkforyourself on 07/06/2015

Jul 5, 2015 17:20:00 GMT ourjesuitpaymasters said:
I find it amazing that the Bible talks about a flat earth. Every time I research into conspiracy, the truth always points me to the Bible. I don't even come from a religious background, and it's simply amazing that the Bible actively talks about deception, and talks about the true power holders of this planet, that of the Papacy.

Yes, but it is not surprising that the Bible contains many truths in it, considering that it is simply the amalgamation of thousands of Pagan religions, put together by Constantine to suppress the people.

This forum is not for Bible thumping, so please make sure that you understand the forum rules; we are spiritual, and I believe in God, but we are against organised religion, and the evil Catholic Church.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:06 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/14/2015
Just wanted to do an update on my research. After I started digging into the subject Christianity's foundation's, I have talked with several people about it to see how would they respond to some of this. I have got some answers from pastors and bible scholars and my mind was blown. The amount of Bullshit has exploded off the scale. I actually feel dirty just from exposing myself to this, that's how pathetic it was. But if you are into this kind of stuff, This is pure gold. If I had any doubts left, I do not have them anymore. I would love to share this with you so if it's okay I would like to make a separate thread because I'm afraid I would be spamming this one too much with a wall of text.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:07 pm

Posted by Admin on 07/14/2015
Hey David, I would love to hear this story and I would prefer you post it in this thread or the Hesus Krishna thread, thanks!

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:07 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/14/2015
No prob. Though it may take a while. Posting from phone

Warning For Religious People - Page 2 Smiley

I have spoken with my friend pastor about objections and problems with our faith and even wrote him an exhaustive list of issues that should be fatal to Christian foundations unless resolved. All about the fake prophecies, the fact that Jewish savior abandoned his chosen people and damned them all to hell, that the bible has numerous errors, contradictions and that we really don't have any rational basis in theology, history or common sense and logic to trust any of its claims. I have provided examples and reasons to support this. I concluded that all those things are enough to reject the bible as a reliable foundation unless we find a strong, reasonable proof for the contrary.

Because in Christianity the belief of bible inerrancy and absolute authority is the most important thing. Every denomination claims to have it's theology and doctrine extracted from the bible. This is the reason they hold those doctrines in the first place. What the bible says has to be more important than what you think, what you want and what you experience.

My pastor replied me with this: "I really don't know how to answer any of that. I couldn't force myself to even read all of it. It was disturbing me too much. This won't affect my life anyway because the source of my faith is not theology but my personal relationship with Jesus and all the things he did in my life. After all I never even had a bible in my hand back then when he saved me and guided me."

Okay, I can understand him, because his life really did change after his conversion. He used to be a drug addict and a thief so I can see where his coming from. Also he had many supernatural experiences. So his argument seems valid.

But there is one problem here. As Christians we are not supposed to be guided by our experiences if they contradict the bible. And now it turns out that that bible's reliability is irrelevant. It doesn't have to be true. You just need to believe it's true and assume that your life is guided by the holy spirit!
maybe it wouldn't be so hypocritical, if he didn't preach about bible's authority himself and didn't bash people for straying from it's teachings...

Than he said that I should quit researching this subject because I have already admitted the possibility that the bible may be wrong and that's a very dangerous place to be in. The reason I'm questioning all of this is because I have neglected my relationship with God (of course!) and I should pray and apologize because what I'm doing is the result of sin and pride...

To be continued in next posts

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:07 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/14/2015
I told my wife about this situation and the conclusions I have come to. We were both married as believers involved in ministry so this was pretty big stuff.
She was terrified. She was convinced that I have departed from faith long ago and now I was coming up with pretexts and excuses to make my apostasy seem reasonable. She was sure that I have been cheating on her all this time and spending our money on girls... She even moved our savings from our shared account, that's how paranoid she got...

Okay this was mostly emotional reaction and we have settled it now. Women tend to overreact like this so I handled it somehow. But she still believes that our marriage will eventually break apart and I will go to hell...

There is a common belief among Christians, that you cannot live a decent moral life if you are not a believer. This is why both my pastor and my wife concluded that my objections to bible will result in me turning into a hellion and reprobate. That it is only the belief in God apparently that keeps me from lying, stealing and raping people left and right. This is all the credit you get Even after 5 years of devoted and faithful life of ministry and 2 years of happy marriage. So much for religion of grace if you ask me...

You see, the bible is holy and inerrant. Whatever contradictions and errors you may find come from your perception and lack of understanding. That's why when I suddenly question the bible they had to assume the worst about me, because there couldn't possibly be any valid reason to distrust the bible. And if I somehow see the faults in the bible, it has to be my fault.

It was then when I realized that I have been through this before. When I converted to Christianity I was led to a church that turned out to be a cult masquerading for a church. It took me 3 years to realize this, but one day I started asking difficult questions. After thinking some things through, I couldn't agree with some of this organization's policies and beliefs. and their reasoning behind them wasn't very convincing. That's when they showed their true colors. They said to me: "you know we were wondering how such an intelligent person like you can all of a sudden change his mind so much. Then the holy spirit revealed to us that you have to live in some hidden sin that affects your thinking. You are after all questioning the actions of your leaders who are led directly by the holy spirit. This is very dangerous because you may commit a sin against the holy spirit and such sin is unforgivable. You can forfeit your salvation if you don't watch out. You think you have to know and understand everything? Remember what happened in the garden of Eden? Eve was punished for wanting knowledge."

This was such a blatant manipulation and intimidation attempt that I was actually relieved to hear it. It made everything clear and so much easier to leave.

Seven years later, in a church that I personally helped to develop and was proud to refer to as a healthy one, what do I hear when I address difficult matters? That there is something wrong with me and that I will go to hell. Totally unlike in the cult...

And once again, it only made the situation more clear.

Next post: answers from bible scholars

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:07 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/14/2015
My pastor promised to get somebody who would be able to provide answers for all those issues. He hasn't been able to find anybody so far.

My wife found a guy who supposedly struggled with the same dilemmas twenty years ago. And he knows much about the bible and Jewish history and their perspective so he should provide some meaningful insight.

I called him and we talked for some time. It turned out that he didn't really found the answers to solve the problems with the bible. But he still believes in Jesus anyway. He just doesn't treat bible the same as before. He sees it more as a set of general guidelines and directions... And he still trusts Jesus because in his name demons come out from people.

Again bible turns out to be not so reliable and trustworthy at all.

Another guy was supposed to clear things up a bit was a very respected bible scholar and an expert in bible interpretations. I wrote to him as well. This time I was prepared to receive some serious caliber arguments. Something I would have to ponder to even grasp.

He wrote me back and answered some of my questions. I thought to myself: "okay, this is it. the moment of truth. This may be where I will be proven wrong and humiliated"

I started reading.
I finished.

I didn't know of I should laugh or cry.

This was so weak.
So pitiful.
I felt insulted.
And the worst part was that this seemingly smart and intelligent guy thought that those were strong arguments...

But don't take my word for it. See for yourself the ultimate defense of Christianity. The greatest arguments One by one.

I asked about prophecies concerning Jesus. How is it that most of them are based on passages taken out of context. That there is no way that one can read those passages and connect them to Jesus, because they speak of something completely different.

The answer was: you surely have no understanding of bible interpretations. Taking words out of context was a common Jewish practice.

Yes.

Understanding written text as if it was written about something totally unrelated is considered a valid method of interpretation.

That's exactly what he said.

I will pause here so you can contemplate on this one. I would like to comment it myself, but words fail me.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:08 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/14/2015
Next one was about gospel author referring to prophecies that don't even exist in the old testament. For example, Jesus was living in Nazareth and that was supposed to be fulfillment of the prophecy: "he will be called a Nazarene". Such prophecy is nowhere to be found.

His answer: this was not a prophecy but a hint. Messiah was supposed to be a sprout of David. Word for Sprout is "necer" and Nazarene is "neceret"

A play on words. This is your best defense?

So this means that the authority and credibility of Jesus is based on puns...

I feel like an idiot for advocating this shit for so many years... I believed that behind all of this there is truth and evidence and reason.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:08 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/15/2015
The virgin birth was supposed to be foretold as well. The prophecy speaks of a birth but one that was supposed to happen 300 years before Jesus. And the text speaks of a young woman, not a virgin, so there was nothing supernatural about this birth. The author of the gospel had changed the word to "virgin" to make it fit his agenda.

His answer was: the author of the gospel changed nothing. He cited the prophecy just as it was written. He just had a Greek translation of old testament And in Greek translation young woman was translated as "virgin".

This fucking idiot just admitted that the whole prophecy was based on incorrect translation. And he still thinks it's legit... And with a straight face...

Oh and sure the prophecy is about someone else. - he than continues - But this one verse in the middle about virgin birth, this one refers to Jesus.

Is this guy fucking retarded or is he just trolling me? Maybe I'm in some kind of candid camera? This can't be real. People can't be that delusional.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:09 pm

Posted by davidkay on 07/15/2015
Seriously, I'm not making this up. This shit is for real.

Of course his prime argument was that I will never understand those answers if I don't accept them first... The usual Bullshit that I have to have personal revelation and relationship with Jesus to see that bible is clear and true.

And also I have a problem with pride. Of course. I could have seen that one coming.

He directed me to some sources I could look up for myself that would help me resolve my other questions.

And I found even more astounding Bullshit.

There is too much to even mention. I feel nauseous already.

All of this is based on improbable and unprovable presuppositions, circular reasoning, blind faith, creative interpretation, denial, peer pressure, fear of hell and strong belief in possessing the absolute monopoly for truth.

Yes, once in a while something supernatural may happen. This always seemed like the strongest argument for Jesus and the bible, but the same kind of stuff happens all over the world even when Jesus is not involved.

So how does Christianity manage to get away with all this Bullshit? How did it defend against logic and reason?

Well there is a way to do it, from what I saw.

First of all, never mention those issues to regular churchgoers and you won't have to defend anything. Works most of the time, because most people believe their gurus and don't investigate things on their own. Those who do are considered misfits and nobody cares what they say.

When people do find out about those problems, try to silence them so the awareness concerning those issues would not spread. Did I mention that pastor asked me to not talk with anybody, including my own wife, about this subject?

Next try to convince that person that it's his fault out sin or spiritual disease causing this doubts. Advise to spend a lot of time on prayer and reading the bible and not talking to people about it. And especially not to expose yourself to anymore information that would further deepen your doubts.

Meanwhile Prepare the congregation that this person has serious spiritual problems. That he fell into Satan's trap and everybody should pray and fast so God would help him get back on track. This way if the person starts talking to people, everybody will know that his words are from the devil.

Only when all else fails, provide answers. And this is the reason why answers are last resort. And why aren't they taught in churches or mentioned when it's not absolutely necessary. Because They aren't worth shit. You have to be desperate to use them in an argument, because they are so easy to refute. And when you refute them, there is nothing left.

Finally if this person leaves, it will be attributed to Satan and not reason or truth. He will be an example for the church to hold on to their faith even more. And everybody will assume that he will go to hell.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:09 pm

Posted by Admin on 07/15/2015
Thanks for sharing your story, I'm enjoying it very much!

Because in Christianity the belief of bible inerrancy and absolute authority is the most important thing.

You are spot-on here. In Christianity they believe that a book full of contradictions, complex metaphors open to interpretation, and talking snakes is "inerrant and the absolute authority." This whole idea is doomed from the get-go and can lead to nothing but hierarchical cultism as "leaders of the faith," claim their particular interpretation to be the only true interpretation.

I told my wife about this situation and the conclusions I have come to. We were both married as believers involved in ministry so this was pretty big stuff. She was terrified. She was convinced that I have departed from faith long ago and now I was coming up with pretexts and excuses to make my apostasy seem reasonable. She was sure that I have been cheating on her all this time and spending our money on girls... She even moved our savings from our shared account, that's how paranoid she got... Okay this was mostly emotional reaction and we have settled it now. Women tend to overreact like this so I handled it somehow. But she still believes that our marriage will eventually break apart and I will go to hell...

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear about this reaction and her clinging to the cultism of Christianity. Hopefully you'll be able to get through to her eventually, but if your relationship does have to end over this, neither of you will "go to hell," and if it becomes irreconcilable, especially if you don't have children together, finding more a more "equally yoked" partner as the Bible recommends may be better for the both of you!

His answer was: the author of the gospel changed nothing. He cited the prophecy just as it was written. He just had a Greek translation of old testament And in Greek translation young woman was translated as "virgin". This fucking idiot just admitted that the whole prophecy was based on incorrect translation. And he still thinks it's legit... And with a straight face.

Lol!

Of course his prime argument was that I will never understand those answers if I don't accept them first... The usual Bullshit that I have to have personal revelation and relationship with Jesus to see that bible is clear and true.

Yes! You don't understand because you don't have the special relationship to an imaginary invisible friend that I have! You don't bow your head and fold your hands while solemnly talking to yourself and asking your spiritual middle-man for favors, so you can't understand "that the Bible is clear and true."

First of all, never mention those issues to regular churchgoers and you won't have to defend anything. Works most of the time, because most people believe their gurus and don't investigate things on their own. Those who do are considered misfits and nobody cares what they say. When people do find out about those problems, try to silence them so the awareness concerning those issues would not spread. Did I mention that pastor asked me to not talk with anybody, including my own wife, about this subject? Next try to convince that person that it's his fault out sin or spiritual disease causing this doubts. Advise to spend a lot of time on prayer and reading the bible and not talking to people about it. And especially not to expose yourself to anymore information that would further deepen your doubts. Meanwhile Prepare the congregation that this person has serious spiritual problems. That he fell into Satan's trap and everybody should pray and fast so God would help him get back on track. This way if the person starts talking to people, everybody will know that his words are from the devil. Only when all else fails, provide answers. And this is the reason why answers are last resort. And why aren't they taught in churches or mentioned when it's not absolutely necessary. Because They aren't worth shit. You have to be desperate to use them in an argument, because they are so easy to refute. And when you refute them, there is nothing left. Finally if this person leaves, it will be attributed to Satan and not reason or truth. He will be an example for the church to hold on to their faith even more. And everybody will assume that he will go to hell.

Amen brotha! This is exactly my experience as well.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:09 pm

Posted by Admin on 07/19/2015
This site should be essential reading for all Christians and people who want to understand the mythological truth about Christianity:

SolarMythology.com

I recommend starting with the following pages then clicking through the rest:

www.solarmythology.com/jesusoutline.htm
www.solarmythology.com/david16.htm

-

When you dig into history, as I've been doing for the past two years, and discover that outside the Bible there isn't a single reference to Jesus anywhere in recorded history for that time. Many people alive at that time wrote extensively about everything that happened, and yet there is not a single reference to Jesus anywhere in all this wealth of first hand accounts.

Then you examine when the Bible itself was written, and discover that the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John; the four books detailing the life of Jesus) are not to be referenced in any writings until the later half of the second century, a full 140 years after it allegedly happened. Even the Catholic Church admits a date of 70A.D. for the earliest Gospel, a full 40 years after the alleged event. [They have to because a certain passage in Mark could not have been written prior to an event that happened in 70AD.](The Catholic Bible, approved by the Pope himself with his signature on it, claims Mark was written in 70A.D.) Bible Scholars claim the Gospels were written in 170A.D. because there is no reference to them by anyone prior to that time, especially by certain people who definitely would have included references to them had they existed.

The second shocker about Jesus is learning that there existed long prior to the alleged time of Jesus many other religions with identical stories of a crucified savior. Early Christian apologists admitted this and explained it away as the work of the Devil. Their general argument was, "What better way to for the Devil to combat our True Religion than for the Devil to have previously created a whole bunch of false religions identical to our True Religion."

The third shocker, the one I am currently working on further unraveling and explaining on my web site, something which very few people have ever realized, and which you now are privy to this explanation, is the discovery that the whole story of Jesus, as well as the stories of all the other crucified saviors prior to Jesus, is an allegory for the Sun's annual journey through the Zodiac and the passage of the seasons of the year. This explains why all these stories are essentially the same. (Notice how the cross is the symbol that divides the four seasons of the year.)

Here is a brief explanation:

Jesus goes on a journey during his ministry.
Jesus' ministry is said to have lasted a year.
It takes a year for the Sun to pass through the 12 signs of the Zodiac.
Jesus starts by visiting John the Baptist. The theme is water.
The Sun starts it's annual journey in January in Aquarius, the bringer of water, because it's the rainy season.

The Bible story then says, "After John was put in prison,..." (Mark 1:14) Suddenly John the Baptist is "put in prison." There is no further explanation in the Bible, which seems quite strange if John were a real person. We want to know why he was "put in prison." What crime was he accused of? Who threw him in prison? Was there a trial? Did Jesus attend the trial and speak on his behalf? No. Nothing more is said. Jesus just continues on his journey.

This is all very strange and hard to understand as a story of real life events, but it all makes perfect sense when understood as an astronomical allegory. The Sun, personified as Jesus, is in Aquarius, personified as John the Baptist. As the month progresses, and the earth continues it annual revolution around the Sun, the Sun appears to move out of Aquarius and into Pisces, the two fishes, and Aquarius at sunset ends up below the horizon. John the Baptist being put in prison is merely an allegory for the constellation Aquarius at sunset moving lower and lower until it is below the horizon at the end of the month and can no longer be seen. It requires no further explanation because it is a natural phenomenon. It is simply what happens.

The Sun then moves to Pisces — the two fish. (February)
Jesus then visits Simon and Andrew, who are fishermen.

The Sun then moves to Aries, the Ram, or lamb. (March, the time of year lambs are born.)
Jesus is known as the Lamb of God.

We celebrate Easter. East-er, when the Sun rises directly in the East. Easter is defined as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox, when the Sun rises directly in the East. We celebrate the crossing of the Sun over the equinox, when the days and nights are of equal length. A Crossification, or crucifixion. Jews celebrate "Passover" at this time, when the Sun "passes over" the equinox. From now on the days get longer, the Sun goes higher in the sky, and the crops begin to grow.

About half way through the story of Jesus an interesting thing happens. John the Baptist reappears and is beheaded. "he has risen from the dead!" says Matthew 14:2 Recall at the beginning of the allegory how Aquarius moved below the Western horizon at sunset as the year went from January to February and the Sun traveled from Aquarius to Pisces. Each zodiac constellation in turn goes below the horizon at sunset as each month passes. After six months the constellation of Aquarius begins to rise on the Eastern horizon at sunset. And it appears that the head of Aquarius is cut off by the horizon. This is John the Baptist rising from the dead, the dead being those who are below the earth. This is John the Baptist being beheaded.

Summer passes, the story of Jesus' journeys continues. We eventually come to the end of Summer and enter the season of Autumn, when the leaves fall from the trees and the trees appear to wither.
It is at this point in the story that Jesus is said to curse the fig tree and make it wither. A story which makes no sense if Jesus were a real person, but it makes perfect sense when understood as an allegory. It is simply Autumn, and Jesus, the Sun, who makes the seasons pass, causes the leaves to fall from the trees.

In the story Jesus makes a triumphant entry into Jerusalem. Everyone knows him and is happy to see him.
The Sun moves into Virgo, the virgin, in August. It is harvest time. The best time of year. Harvest time is "The Kingdom of Heaven" time which Jesus refers to in earnest as coming soon throughout the story up to here. Virgo is always personified as holding a sheaf of wheat or an ear of corn. Virgo represents the harvest. When the Sun is in Virgo it is harvest time.

The Zodiac is divided into twelve "houses." Each "house" contains one of the twelve Zodiac constellations. The "house" containing Virgo is known as the house of bread, because it's the house the sun is in during harvest time. Bethlehem is a word which can be found numerous times in the Old Testament. It is a Hebrew word. Actually it is two Hebrew words. Beth-lehem. Pronounced in Hebrew, "bayth leh'-khem". "bayth" is literally "house", and "leh'-khem" is literally "bread". Thus "Bethlehem" is literally "house of bread." It is a reference to the Zodiac "house of bread", which is where you will find Virgo, the celestial virgin. At the alleged time of Jesus there was no town on earth known as Bethlehem. Bethlehem was then known not as a town on earth, but a reference to a time of year — harvest time.

Virgo is the virgin that gives birth to the Sun each year when it passes out of her. She is the one who gives birth and yet remains always and forever a virgin. (The way Virgo is traditionally drawn on the planisphere the Sun passes out of Virgo between her legs). Farmers who till the fields are said to be wedded to this celestial virgin for which they wait for each year. Thus they are known as "husbandmen," and their tools such as tractors are know as impliments of husbandry. The DMV vehicle code book has a special section titled, "Impliments of Husbandry" which cover these vehicles.

Continuing with our story:

"Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers." (Matthew 21:12)
The Sun moves from Virgo into Libra, the Scales. (September). These are the "Scales of Justice." The harvest has been gathered, it is now time to sell the harvest. Scales are used in buying and selling the harvest. At the end of harvest time, when there is nothing left to sell, the money changers pack up and leave.

In the Jesus story we then have the Last Supper, when we eat the harvest. It is the end of harvest season -- it is the Last Supper. We eat the flesh of the fruit, figuratively the flesh of Jesus, the Sun, which make the fruit grow, and drink the blood of the grapes, figuratively the blood of Jesus, the Sun, which made the grapes grow. Without this food we would perish.

Jesus is then betrayed by Judas.
Judas represents Scorpio, the Scorpion of October, which figuratively stings the Sun to make it slowly die. The days begin to get shorter, as the Sun rises lower and lower each day.
Judas betrays Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, representing the 30 days of the month. The month being one cycle of the phases of the moon. The moon, a piece of silver in the sky.

Jesus is handed over to Herod — a personification of Night. (See Matthew Chapter 2—The Birth of Jesus [this site]) Herod, or the darkness of Night, is taking over Jesus, the Sun, as the days get shorter and shorter in Autumn and darkness begins to reign.

Jesus is handed over to Pontius Pilate. "Pontius" is literally "of the sea", a reference to the sea of stars above. "Pilate" is literally "armed with a spear". Pontius Pilate is a personification of Sagittarius, the last constellation the Sun passes through during the last month of the year, Nov. 22 - Dec. 21, and the last person Jesus sees in the story. Sagittarius is a man on a horse with a bow and arrow. He is the man armed with a spear. The days get shorter and shorter as the year comes to a close. Things look dark and gloomy. What will happen to our savior, the Sun, who makes the harvest grow? Will he disappear forever?

Jesus is crucified and placed in a cave. It is the end of the story. A sad ending. But have faith. Jesus, the Sun, will arise again — a new year will begin. Three days after Jesus is placed in the cave he will arise again. This is the prophecy.

On Christmas day, December 25, we celebrate the birth of Jesus. December 22 was the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year, when the Sun was at its lowest. Three days later, on December 25, the sun rises 1/10 of it's width farther north — just barely detectable by carefully observing the shadows cast at sunrise. Our savior, the Sun, has been reborn, to begin the cycle of the year and the cycle of life again.

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:10 pm

Posted by csp on 07/22/2015
I'd also recommend this run down of the Astronomical Chapters of the Ethiopic Book of Enoch by Otto E. Neugebauer for anyone still not convinced by Eric's post above:

http://www.sdu.dk/media/bibpdf/Bind 40-49\Bind\mfm-40-10.pdf]www.sdu.dk/media/bibpdf/Bind%2040-49%5CBind%5Cmfm-40-10.pdf

Otto E. Neugebauer debated heliocentric model after the moon landing, was interested and wrote articles on astrolabes, math and science in antiquity (persian, egyptian, etc) along with things like water clocks in Babylonian Astronomy.

Science once ruled in Antiquity, and I believe Otto E. Neugebauer's life work is another nail in the coffin for "modern religion".

by Thinkforyourself Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:11 pm

Posted by schpankme on 08/06/2015
(Where does Islam fit in all this?)

Right next to Jew and Christian in the Fictional Section.

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